How Iraq still defines this election

For all the talk about the economy, Iraq is still a central issue in the 2008 election. And the most important issue in Iraq is the future relationship between the US and the Iraqi government. This question was driven home by what many interpreted as a gaffe by McCain when he said "it doesn't matter" when US troops return home. As he has said before, John McCain envisions a permanent and large-scale occupation along the lines of Korea and Germany. Hw also imagines that occupation to be peaceful and blessed by the Iraqi government and Iraqi people as a whole.

There are two problematic assumptions behind McCain's argument. The first is that Iraq has not become the politically stable environment that post-1953 South Korea was or post-WWII Germany. And there is no indication that Iraq will ever stabilize like that. Americans will always be shot at in Iraq, so the "Korea-like" peaceful operation where we "don't take casualties" will never even begin.

But there's another problematic assumption that is only now getting major attention. What does the Iraqi government think of this? We know there are millions of Iraqis who detest the US. But we still have very close ties with the government, which has shown surprising deftness in handling crises in Basra and Mosul of late. If that government tells us we have to go, how can we justify staying?

As Juan Cole points out today, the Maliki government is showing the strongest signal yet that it wants the US out soon. Specifically, the Iraqi government is planning to reject Bush's status of forces agreement with Iraq, which would have allowed for dozens of permanent bases in the country. Sovereignty is the biggest stumbling block. According to Maliki, the US plans "violate Iraqi sovereignty. At the end, we reached a dead end."

McClatchy even quotes Maliki as possibly asking the US to leave Iraq once the UN mandate expires later this year.

No status of forces agreement = no US in Iraq.

So what will this mean for the US election? The central position in John McCain's national security policy is not that the surge has reduced violence, as much as he points that out. The central position is that we must remain in Iraq indefinitely, so we can use Iraq as a staging ground for further actions against Iran and various other strategic goals that McCain has so far failed to spell out.  But if the Iraqi government tells us to leave, how can McCain even justify staying there?

Some enterprising journalist just might want to ask John McCain this question: Senator McCain, if the Iraqi government refuses to accept a permanent status of forces agreement and concludes that the US is no longer wanted in the country, will you then pull US troops out of the country? That strikes me as the most important question for the 2008 election right now, because if McCain botches this, he is utterly unfit to take the strategic reins of this country.

By the way, Juan Cole is MUST reading for those who want to know what is really happening in Iraq. If you think Iraq has reached some semblance of peaceful equilibrium, just read the "daily violence" section on Cole's site. It's depressing.



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Re: How Iraq still defines this election (1.00 / 0)

I don't think Hillary/ Obama or McCain would leave Iraq anytime soon (unless forced out as you have written). Funny part of it was that foreign policy heads / advisers from both hillary and obama's camp pretty much said that in the primary election.

Obama is on record saying that prior to his run for the office. And I totally agree w/ him. How can we / he predict what he is going to do before he sees what the situation is on the ground in Jan.

The alarming question is: we been back there twice now... should we leave to ensure we are back there a 3rd time and this time it would be a cluster phuck of mess thanks to us and yes way more unstable and dangerous w/ iran and AQI back in there...

Malaki can say what he wants - he can't control his army , shoot ½  of them run away from a fight. It's a damn mess . we can only hope we can get their army up and ready to take over 100%. Lastly, I myself would like to see us being paid back by the Iraqi govt , if they want us to leave... screw the freebie infrastructure we built w/ our tax dollars and the lives our kids gave up.


Rise / Repeat / But for god's sake don't spin!
by aliveandkickin on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:45:21 AM EST

If President Obama (or any other) (none / 0)

tells the Iraqi puppet government they REALLY want us to leave, they'll tell us to leave.  The fact that they are threatening to tell Bush to leave right now tells you that they are under enormous domestic pressure to get rid of us.  Pres. Obama ony needs to communicates to them that he thinks it's time for us to leave.


by Dumbo on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:39:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Iraq still defines this election (2.00 / 0)

great diary. you pose a brilliant question that seems to be overlooked quite often by us and the press.  


[rec'd!]
"Rankles and Rush Limbaugh, ruining the chaos brand since 2008."
by alyssa chaos on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:14:12 AM EST

Re: How Iraq still defines this election (none / 0)


Well, I read Juan Cole daily.  I'm not always impressed by his analysis or his dumb Obama-mongering, but he's usually self-correcting when he makes mistakes.  (Ever since Obama's AIPAC speech he hasn't posted about Obama, either- very strange ;-)  Cole was moronically anti-Hillary because she went with the 'pro-Israel' crowd that got him to lose out on tenure at Yale...and now that Obama is running to center, he realizes he was suckered.  He refuses to respond to people asking what he thinks about Obama's I/P positions now.)

Maliki doesn't have that strong a hand, actually.  This 'SofA' thing is not something Bush needs, but it's mostly a help to McCain just like the 'trial' that will run in Guantanamo in September and October.

I think Team Bush will squeeze Maliki until he agrees to an interim agreement- maybe an extension of a year or two.  This 'permanent' thing was probably a trial balloon to see just how much they could really get and how much sway the Iranians, Sadr, etc. hold over Maliki.  Maybe they thought Maliki might be sucker enough that asking for the max could work.  These people are all opportunists that prey on the foolish, ignorant, and weak.


by killjoy on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:20:44 AM EST

Re: How Iraq still defines this election (none / 0)

You might be right about the trial balloon here. And Iraqi domestic politics definitely plays a critical role.

But isn't that the point? If Iraq is a democracy, shouldn't Iraqis decide how they should work with the US?

The fundamental problem is back again: Is Shi'ite-run Iraq more in thrall to Iran or the US? It's heart is with Iran but it's head is (sometimes) with the US.


by elrod on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 11:15:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Keith Olberman (none / 0)

pretty much pimp slapped McCain on this issue.



Gobama!
by USArmyParatrooper on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:53:14 AM EST

Re: How Iraq still defines this election (none / 0)

McCain can avoid answering your question until Iraq and the US actually reach a SoFA or Iraq formally asks the US to withdraw.  Its just hypothetical until then.  

However, I do hope Sen. Obama does not continue to allow McCain to get away with framing the debate as Obama wanting to surrender and McCain wanting to win.  The idea that a foreign power gets to decide when a sovereign country can "defend itself and govern itself" is modern apartheid.  That is why McCain's answer that a timeline is not too important speaks volumes.  He is prepared to give the Iraqis forever and a day.  America is not that generous.  


by PabloZed on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 08:28:54 AM EST

Most obvious troll ever (2.00 / 2)

Admin needs to ban the admitted McCain supporter.


by turtlescrubber on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 09:54:34 AM EST

Re: Most obvious troll ever (2.00 / 0)

You do understand the difference between China banning dissent on the streets of China, or controlling the information in the public discourse.  And a private site, with the purpose of electing Democrats, banning people that are supporters of Republicans.

And it is ironic that as a supporter of someone that wants to take control of a persons body away from them,  and the right of equality for many Americans away, you would question another on free speech.  Socially the GOP is more in agreement with Iran than the US.


Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win. ~ Sun Tzu
by Tumult on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:36:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Most obvious troll ever (2.00 / 0)

Your name has 4 McCain in it.  So you have no clue on social policy, which is more impacted by who is President than Foreign policy.  And I am not sure where you get the idea that he has no clue on foreign policy.  Just by being elected he will tremendously improve US perception throughout the world.  And the US has only post WW2 become interventionists.  In both WW1 and WW2 we had US casualties before we entered the war. We allowed North Korea a country we do not have a peace treaty with to develop nuclear weapons,  and directly trained Osama Bin-Laden,  we have gone to war twice with Iraq and a dictator we armed, and we armed Iran even as we refused to talk to them, our stance on Cuba has done nothing to improve the situation and allowed the regime an excuse to crush dissent.   And some of the policies that led to these situations were directly supported by the Clintons,  so I am not sure where you criticism of Obama comes from.


Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win. ~ Sun Tzu
by Tumult on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 11:00:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That's exactly (none / 0)

what the troll wanted you to say, so now he can get on his high horse about how Stalinist Democrats have become since Obama took over.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 11:03:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Most obvious troll ever (2.00 / 1)

gotta love the screen name trying to blame Hillary for this nonsense


by zerosumgame on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:13:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Iraq=Economy. (none / 0)

Which cannot be said enough, and really undermines McCain's occupation stance.  Even assuming we had total victory in Iraq, his long term occupation would still take workers and money out of the US economy.

Assuming we have 100k troops, and 100k contractors that would live in the US if they were not in Iraq, over the last 5 years, and assume they would spend an average of 50 dollars a week.  And the US economy has lost, $2,600,000,000 which is a very conservative figure.  And knowing that number affects other jobs as well as taxes, which in turn affects other jobs and taxes, and we see the huge ripple Iraq has done to our economy.   Which does not even take into account the major costs of the war.  Or subsequent care.  And we know that some of the US contractors are considered employed through tax shelter countries so we are taking a compounded hit on taxes.


Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win. ~ Sun Tzu
by Tumult on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:27:53 AM EST

Re: How Iraq still defines this election (2.00 / 0)

But what happens if Iraq ASKS us to leave? What does "finishing the job" even mean in that case? Do we overrule the Iraqi government and say, "Silly Iraqis, don't you know how much you need us?"


by elrod on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 11:17:02 AM EST

Re: How Iraq still defines this election (2.00 / 0)

That's called imperialism. Do you not believe in spreading democracy in the Middle East? If not, do you perchance see how undermining the sovereign Iraqi government would blow back against us? I suspect McCain doesn't either, which is why he is utterly unqualified to lead American national security and foreign policy. Neo-conservatism has been reputed by facts on the ground. Iraqis will not bend to our will. Petraeus showed they will only come around to us if we make peace with them. By overruling their elected government we will unite Iraqis against us. This is so utterly irresponsible.


by elrod on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:52:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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